2. Dallas Run Clinic - Straight Line to Success

Justin Shelley: Hello, everybody. This is Justin Shelley here, CEO of Master Computing in the Dallas Fort Worth Metro, coming to you with episode two of DFW Rockstars. I've got a special guest today. It's a little bit personal, so I'm going to give a little bit of my background in particular, you know, as it relates to my guests today. But I also I got some interesting feedback. Couple days ago, as I'm promoting this podcast and talking to people about it, somebody said, you know, who's the next musician? Cause my first guest was a musician. And I said, no, this isn't a podcast about musicians. And they said, well, it's called DFW Rockstars. And I'm like, oh, yeah, I guess I should have thought that through. So let's clear that up a little bit. We're going to talk about why I call it DFW Rockstars. And really what this is about is is overcoming. This is about talking to people who have dealt with significant challenges in their lives, have had levels of success and telling their story and how it is that they overcome, how it is that they achieve greatness. So in business we talk a lot about how there's no straight line to success. My guest here today actually, he might prove that theory wrong just a little bit. This is probably the best example of straight line to success that I've seen so far. But man, I tell you my background is rocky, there's no straight line for me and let me dig into that a little bit right now. So when I was kindergarten, if I remember right, maybe first grade, I decided I wanted to play baseball. And I remember vividly having my coach pull me out in front of the team and say, throw me the ball. And I threw him the ball. I knew I was in trouble. I knew I wasn't doing what he wanted me to do. I wasn't good enough. I wasn't athletic enough or whatever at the ripe old age of six. And, you know, so he made me throw the ball to him in front of the whole team and I did and it sucked. And he kind of shook his head and he said, Are you sure you're not left handed? You know and now I'm just feeling like a piece of crap. And he gives the ball back to me and he said, Try it again with your left hand, maybe you can do that. That experience just crushed me, you know, really early on in my life. And so, you know, fast forward a little bit, I I tried out for the basketball team in seventh grade. Now mind you, it's not like I spent a lot of time prepping for this. I didn't have athletic parents, I didn't have a lot of training, I just knew I wanted to play with my friends, you know, play some ball with my buddies. And so I tried out for the basketball team and I thought I did a pretty dang good job on that first tryout, but I did not make the first cut. And so there again, I I had this message kind of locked into my brain that I wasn't good at sports. I sucked at sports. What the message wasn't, and I wish I had taken the message of, hey, Justin, maybe you ought to practice if you want to try out for the basketball team. But that is not what I did. I just got this message that I wasn't any good. So I found some things that I was better at. I played soccer, did decent in soccer, and I ran track in high school. Now I don't know how I decided to run sprints, but I ran sprints. Somewhere in that training and practices after school I remember coaches, peers, whoever telling me that if you ran sprints you cannot run distance. There's a different muscle type, there's different genetics, whatever, but I again got this clear message of something that I could not do. Now I hadn't tried at that point, actually I think I did, I did once one season of cross country in high school. You know, in true to form I didn't win first place on the first try and I already had this message so locked in my brain that I couldn't do things that I just took that as confirmation, you know, that I was not a distance runner. So that's my childhood, some head trash that I carried with me through most of my life, just this belief system that I couldn't do things if they didn't come naturally to me, I didn't really try. One of my biggest regrets, because I'd love to go back and see what I could have accomplished if I had applied myself. But I got into, let's just call it a midlife crisis, I won't go into how old I am, but I decided that I was going to throw a big middle finger to these voices in my head telling me I couldn't do stuff. And I was gonna be, know, the way I expressed that initially was to run distance. So I worked really hard, I got to the point where I could run a five ks and I actually did. I signed up for a race, I participated, I did not win but it was okay. I crossed the finish line. And the second I crossed the finish line, that was such a huge victory to me that I instantly started thinking, okay, what's next? And I remember I called my brother and I'm like, hey, what do I do? He was more athletic than I was, played football and all that. I said, I did the five k. What's next? I mean, should I try to get faster or should I like train for a marathon or something? And he's like, woah, slow down there. There are other options. There's more than just A and B here. You could do a 10 ks. Now it hadn't crossed my mind that there was anything else. And so I looked into it, signed up for a 10 ks, crossed the finish line. And then again, I'm just like, okay, what's next? What's next? What's next? I did a 15 ks, a 20 ks, a half marathon until, you know, right now I'm sitting on five marathons with varying levels of success. But, you know, I worked through that that mental block, the voices in my head, the inner demons, whatever you want to call it. And these were major, major victories for me. And they were life changing because it it taught me that I didn't have to naturally be good at something before I could go out and force myself to get better and take the appropriate measures. Now, one thing that did happen to me along the way is every time I trained for a marathon, I would get some sort of an injury, an overuse injury. I don't know what my best marathon time could be because every time I've run one I've been hurt to some extent. And so after my last one I just decided if I'm going to do it and actually I want to qualify for Boston, I'll put that out there. That's a huge goal, meaning it's very out of reach right now, but I knew that that was never going to even become an option for me if I couldn't stop getting injured and so I grabbed myself a physical therapist. Now that's where I'm about to introduce my guest today because he's the one on the call, my physical therapist, and this guy did a fantastic job of diagnosing my running injuries in a way that nobody had ever done before. He wasn't my first physical therapist. Dabbled with a couple others, but it was just a quick bandaid approach, you know, Oh, your knee hurts. Okay. Well, here's some stretching exercises or whatever. But this guy got in and he sorted out the problem. He's like, no, it's not your knee, it's your ankle actually. And I was just like, wow, that I don't know, it rocked my world to know that one problem that I didn't know I had was causing this other problem. And so anyways I've got the physical therapy under control, I'm building my fitness back up in a healthier way, but again with that goal of Boston I knew that I had to take this one more level up and I needed a good running coach. I started off with just a lower, I don't know what to call it, I don't want to insult the company. They do a good job but they're way more recreational in their coaching and so I moved on and now my physical therapist is also my running coach and I'm absolutely in love with the program with everything he's got going on. So that is my introduction to my guest today. Steve is his name, Steve White with Dallas Run Clinic. Steve, say hello. Steve White: How's it going? Thanks for having me, Justin. Justin Shelley: Yeah, absolutely. I really appreciate you being here. Kind of pulling up your website as as we talk so that I can direct people that way. I mean for anybody that is in the running world and I'm gonna send this out Steve to some of my running buddies just so you know, I'll let them all know that I've got this new coach and that we did this interview. But anyways the way to contact Steve, dallasrunclinic.com is your website and we talked a little bit before the show about the best way to get ahold of you. I know that when I found you, I just hit Google for physical therapist running Dallas, something like that. And man, you were it. You were the one that showed up. Nice. Which is awesome. I mean, you know what I'm talking about? What the path to success. You did a lot of things right from the beginning and we'll get into that here in just a second. But what I want to do, Steve, you've got some stuff on your website that I absolutely love this because I in the running world you get on Facebook groups or you get in Reddit, there's different subs there where people talk about running and constantly people are asking for advice. And right here on your site, I'm going to the resources page, dallasrunclinic.com/resources. You have a couple of free handouts. Can you tell me a little bit about what's in these handouts? Steve White: Yeah, for sure. And, you know, oh yeah, before I forget too, man, that's just a powerful story, that that you gave to to start us off because, you know, I I think it just speaks to, why running is is so awesome, because I think it's just all about proving to yourself that you can do things that you didn't think you could do. So that that's a cool story. Thanks thanks for sharing that. Justin Shelley: Yeah. No. Thank you. And I I kinda glossed over that, I guess. But, yeah, it it's what drives me and it's really it's it played or flowed over into so many other areas of my life. Just having that that initial I can't do it, which turned into actually I can, you know, I did. It's such a huge confidence builder. Steve White: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah. A little bit about those resources. Basically, they're just a couple of handouts, and and they've got some kinda exercise links associated with them. And and they're kinda just a how to, get started with some of this stuff. So there's a there's a strength training handout, and then there's there's another one that kinda has some different mobility drills that that you can do. So, you know, those are just a great starting point for for anyone that, doesn't, you know, quite know what else they should do to supplement their running. Because because there's all this information out there on, you know, well, should I be foam rolling? Should I be stretching? Should I be icing? Should I be using compression? All of this all this stuff. So this kinda just provides, a crash course in a few of the things that, you know really can get you some bang for your buck. Justin Shelley: Yeah and like I said, I mean people are asking for advice all the time so here's that advice that you're just giving away for free. Assuming somebody wanted to hire you and I you know I probably should have asked this before we got rolling here but do you do remote like if people aren't in the Dallas Metro will you work with them or are you strictly a DFW as far as the PT work goes and or the coaching? Steve White: Sure. Yeah. So, that's a good question. The the PT work, I I can do anyone that's in in Texas in the state of Texas. I can't do outside of Texas just because that's physical therapy license is only for Texas at this time. But then in terms of the performance coaching, I can do anyone in The U. S. Or the world for that point. So yeah. Justin Shelley: Okay. Yeah. Awesome. And I'm asking that because like I said, I'm in some groups and I'm going to throw this out there to them. But yeah, if you guys want a really good running coach, this has been you know, we've only been working together a few weeks, but it's been it's been huge. I love it because and as I've told you, it's more of a complete, a more well rounded program. It's not just running, but it's overall fitness. And I mean, you have to have both, Especially like this Boston, this stupid Boston goal that I have. I'm not doing that if the rest of my body keeps falling apart. So yeah, that's what I love about your program. So best way to make an appointment with you if somebody wanted to talk, would you just point them to their web, your website, go to the contact page or what's the best way to do that? Steve White: Yeah. Yeah. Website, contact page has my info. So email, phone number, or you can do the, you know, the old form submission as well. So, that's that's a good way to to get in touch with me. And I'm usually pretty, pretty quick about responding too. Justin Shelley: Okay. And then one thing I'll say again before we really start talking business here is in the training, the programs that you put together with for me, a lot of these workouts are videos that you've recorded and put up on YouTube. Is it okay to plug that YouTube channel? I know that's free content. You don't get paid for it, but. Steve White: Yeah, definitely. You know, I mean, I think absolutely. So yeah, YouTube channel is just Dallas Run Clinic, and that has all of the exercises that I use for, really rehab, and performance coaching. And yeah, you know, I think putting that out there is is something I've always wanted to do just, you know, just for free because, you know, I think people will really benefit from this stuff. And and once they kinda dial in some of this extra stuff, you know, like we talked about other than just running, it can just make make worlds of difference. So, you know, disclaimer with that. Obviously, it's like, you know, those things are best used, like, under the directive of a of a therapist if you're dealing with an injury, obviously, and then, obviously getting some direction for performance coaching helps. But, know, it's it's great for just someone that's like, oh, okay. Well, I need, you know, I I need a good bridge variation. Like, boom, you go find that playlist and I've got several that you can find that most likely can meet kind of where where you're at. So, definitely. Justin Shelley: Yeah, those playlists are awesome. So if you go again, dallasrunclinic.com down at the bottom, there's the YouTube icon or you can just search Dallas Run Clinic on YouTube itself, I guess. Right? Yeah. Yeah, hit some playlists, take advantage of some of this free stuff. But man, if you know and I know our audience isn't we're talking to business owners, but any of you guys that are into physical health, fitness, whatever, take a look there's some good stuff up there. Steve White: So all Justin Shelley: right, let's move forward. Steve, one of the main reasons that I wanted you on here is now I've got to back up a little bit, I'm sorry. I got to go back to these communities that I'm a part of. One thing that just drives me crazy is that they're constantly asking for advice about injuries. It drives me crazy because I used to do it and I ran for years with an improperly diagnosed injury. So take about thirty seconds and tell people why they should not go to Facebook or Reddit to diagnose running injuries or any other kind of a physical injury. Steve White: Yeah, yeah you know I think you just gotta know who your source is and and where where this information is coming from. Because you've got a lot of people that that might just be a a normal person that's not really, you know, has a background in this, and and they're just telling what worked for them. You know? And and that's, you know, I don't wanna knock them for for doing that necessarily because, you know, I'm sure their intentions are good. But, let's put it this way. If if I, you know, suddenly got audited or something, you know, I I'm I'm probably not gonna go on to Reddit and find out how to deal with it. I'm probably gonna go hire an accountant, and and Justin Shelley: Right. Steve White: Have a professional help me. Because there's just all these nuances that, you know, the everyday person might not know. And you know, again, it helps to just have someone that really has the background to pick up on certain things. Justin Shelley: So yeah, mean, like I said, I ran five marathons with an improperly diagnosed injury, So it saved me $150 or whatever it costs to go see a physical therapist, but it costs me years of agony, years of agony. And I asked people for advice. I even went to a physical therapist, but they weren't a specialist. I highly recommend a specialist if you're not in this area, man, find a find a good running specialist or whatever it is that your sport is, your activity is. But that makes a difference. So now let's transition a little bit there and talk about business where we're talking about specialists and you and I have talked off air, we're going to do it online now or on air. But one of the things that really stood out to me about your business is how you went straight to doing so many things right with, know, this number one is specializing. I run an IT consultant company and you know we're still figuring out our specialty. We do a lot of things for a lot of people and that's not a great strategy, but you went straight to this specialized version of physical therapy. So tell me a little bit about the name of your business, why that matters and just a little bit about how you set this thing up and where you learned it. Know, we'll go back and forth a little bit, but let's just dive into that. Steve White: Sure. Yeah. So yeah, the name's Dallas Run Clinic. And and you know, essentially that was just born out of, you know, obviously I was gonna I was trying to do something in the in the running realm. And and of course my background is is a physical therapist. That's that's, know, how I'm I'm trained. But I also just didn't wanna name it something physical therapy because I wanted it to be more than that. I wanted it to be a place where, you know, you might come to work on an injury or you might come to work on your, you know, performance and then, you know, hit a certain goal time, something like that. So, you know, I just wanted the name to to really portray that it was more about PT, but at the same time it was, you know, very specific. So that's kinda that's kinda how how that came about. Justin Shelley: How much competition do you have in the metro, Steve? Steve White: Well, you know, I mean, there's there's definitely a bunch of people that, you know, a bunch of good therapists and and good health practitioners that that obviously see runners. But, you know, I I don't there's few and far between that I guess have put their stake in the ground and say said, you know, this is what I do, which was, again, kind of the whole thought behind it, to to really be that place, that that kinda tries to tries to be, you know, the one stop shop for that stuff. So Yeah. Justin Shelley: And I mean, you're you're you're being humble and I appreciate that. I'm gonna go ahead and talk for you because I punch into Google Dallas Run Physical Therapy and and you're it. Like, you're the one that pops up. Yeah. Then we've got after that, we've got Facebook, we've got more Facebook, we've got three d PT. I don't know what that is. Maybe that's kind of competition, but like you're at the top. How long do you mind me asking how long you've been in business? Steve White: Yeah. So I've been, it'll be two years here in about another month. Justin Shelley: Okay. So a couple of years I've been in business in this area for ten years by comparison. If I were to type in Dallas IT service, guess who's not coming to the top of the list? So that's, you know, the name of the business matters. The fact that you you dialed it in into this niche market matters. I mean, again, I've said it so many times already, but I'm gonna say it again. When I search for this particular thing, you're it, you're at the top of the list. So let's talk a little bit about business. And especially, I don't know, let's maybe not talk about COVID right now and the world burning down with riots and let's pretend we're living under normal circumstances. It's not uncommon for corporate America to be a term that's thrown around in a pretty derogatory way, would you agree with that? Yeah. I mean we're as a business owner now you're a physical therapist, but you also are a business owner. And as a business owner, you might get lumped into the category of, you know, maybe a greedy bastard, for example, or somebody who only cares about profit and that becomes a bad word almost. Or, you know, how often do you hear people say my boss is an asshole. I mean like this is just as business owners we're not really packed around on people's shoulders that often, agree? Steve White: Yeah, sure. Justin Shelley: Okay. So and you haven't always owned a business, you've been doing this for two years but you worked at a hospital before I believe, right? Steve White: Yeah, yeah I was at a private practice, so so someone kinda like me that had, you know, actual employees for for a couple years. And then, as I was getting this business going, I was I was working, you know, part time at a hospital just to kinda supplement things. So yeah. Justin Shelley: So you've been on both sides of and so have I. I've been an employee. I've been an employer. Yeah. I can tell you that I have, you know, and I'm not speaking for everybody, but personally I've never lost sleep over a job as an employee. Yeah. But I can tell you that as a business owner, as an employer, man, I lose sleep all the time worrying about my business, worrying about my clients, worrying about my employees, worrying about finances. I mean, just general uncertainty if we're going to bring back COVID into the conversation or the racial wars and riots that are going on. It's terrifying, right? And so this isn't for the faint of heart. In a lot of ways, I would argue that running a business sucks. Now your experience might be different, but do you have those moments where you just think, what in the hell am I doing running the business? Steve White: Oh, yeah. Like every day. Yeah. Okay. Good. It's not just Justin Shelley: I was worried asking that. Steve White: Probably once a week, I'll, like, I'll ask my wife who's mega supportive and and, like, definitely definitely on board and has been been awesome. But once a week, I'll be like, should I just, go get a normal job and, like, be a normal person again? And she's like, what are you talking about? Justin Shelley: My wife used to say that to me, when are you going to get a real job? That was her favorite thing to ask early on. I mean, and you know, that's another thing that I hadn't even thought about coming into this conversation is our spouses, our families. It's not easy on them either. Steve White: Right. Yeah. Right. Yeah for sure. Justin Shelley: So it's not that there aren't perks, there are advantages. I chose this, I choose to stay. It sounds like you're doing something similar at least for the moment. Yeah. Okay, so tell me about the let's let's focus in on the single most challenging thing you've had to face as a business owner. Steve White: Good. That's a good question. You know, I'd probably just say, you know, personally, you know, being kind of, like a one man operation, you know, I I think it's hard just not having anybody to necessarily turn to and ask advice or questions or make some of these just day to day decisions. Again, other than bugging my wife or I've got some smart people in my family that, you know, I reach out for advice for. But, yeah, I think, you know, sometimes, you know, I guess it's almost like, it's almost like, you know, some sort of endurance race. Like at the end of the day, like, you're in it and, and, you know, you've gotta you've gotta get to that finish line or, you know, endure whatever whatever is coming your way kind of by yourself. You know, there might be some people supporting you along the way. But so I I'd say that's that's the hardest thing is is just kind of, being in it alone. But in some ways that has perks as well, guess. Yeah, I don't know, does that make sense? Justin Shelley: No, it absolutely does. The lonely, I use that to describe my job a lot. It's lonely. Now I have employees. I've got one in particular that's kind of my right hand man and when I'm doing planning and strategy and whatever he's usually a part of that. But in the end it all falls on me. You know, if this thing blows up, it's my fault and that's it. You know, the buck stops here. If it goes really well, well, know what? Luckily everybody gets to take advantage of that situation. But I'm the one with with the most to lose if this thing goes belly up. And so it's yeah. Lonely is a really good way of describing that. So, what have you done to kind of power through that or overcome that? Steve White: Yeah. You know, and I think I'm still probably working on this one because, you know, I tend to be a little bit more of a, you know, think I can do it all myself. But, you know, there there's a there's a group, I'm part of that. That's really, it was started by this physical therapist up in Seattle. His name is Chris Johnson. And anyone, again, that's in the running realm needs to check out him. But, he started this Facebook group, and essentially, it's like minded, you know, practitioners all over the country that that are interested in running. And and so being a part of that has been just awesome because, I mean, these people, you know, we're talking the same language. A lot of them are business owners, you know, so so in a way, it's just a little community of of people that are all doing the same thing. So you know that has been awesome. Justin Shelley: That is huge having those communities. So huge. I mean I do that for running. I've got my Facebook groups I keep talking about. We're really close in these groups. But it was it's been about six years now for me that I discovered something similar to what you're talking about. It's a little bit more formal, probably, and a lot more expensive, I'm sure. But I interface with a lot of other IT business owners. And prior to that man it was you really talk about lonely, I just felt like a man on an island. So I'm glad that you've got that group, that's awesome. Steve White: Yeah me too. Justin Shelley: But still I mean it still comes down to you know it's you and to kind of validate your story through the group that I'm a part of, it's a marketing group, a peer support group And I've done some coaching within that organization helping the newbies to the group work through the marketing. And I had a group for a while that they were all, I guess what I'd call solopreneurs, the the one man shops or however you want to describe it. And I had three groups at the time, and one of them was that what you're describing. And I mean, they struggled, man. It was it was painful to watch. Yeah. And a lot of them, they got in their own way. They wouldn't hire help. They couldn't hire help. They couldn't get it all done. You know, they all had their challenges and I ached for them. But I also I just kind of came up short trying to help them through that. And here we are, know, I'm bringing you on here because you did it while I coached these guys for probably about two years, maybe just shy of two years. I never saw them reach the, you know, just, you know what impresses me about your system is that you've got a lot of stuff set up. You've got the technology in place, the online payments, the SEO search engine optimization is dialed in, your website's good, you I can make the appointment. I mean, I'm at your office and I swipe my card to pay for one and we've scheduled the next one and it's on my account. I mean, like all this stuff is set up. And when I first saw this, I just thought, damn, this guy must have spent some serious money and had some serious training to get all that done. So Steve, tell me about the massive investment, all of the coaches you hired to get to where you're at right now in the great length of two years. Yeah. I'm being sarcastic. Yeah. Steve White: I know. For sure. Yeah. I mean, you know, piece by piece and and, you know, I guess, you know, really, really didn't invest a whole lot. You know, I I probably, I mean, I won't talk numbers, but, you know, let's just take the website. Like, I mean, I'm just using Squarespace. I found this guy. I found this, I mean, guy. I don't know. He's a kid. He I think he had he was in his, you know, junior year of of college. I think he goes in somewhere in New York City. Anyways, he's a he's a programmer, and I don't know how I found him, or he's a coder. I don't know what you call it. Anyways, I reached out to him. He like, hey. Like, I'm trying to get this website going. Like like, can you help me with some my SEO and, you know, setting up the template a little bit? And he was like, yeah, for sure. And so I think I paid him I think I'm paying him $250. And, you know, I don't even know. He might not only even spend an hour on my stuff. But I I tell you, looking back, I I would have paid them 2,500, if if not more because it just, so, you know, I guess to answer your question, a a lot of this stuff just started falling in place by by just, you know, starting to pick off certain things and and go after them like the SEO or the the website or the payment processing. You know, I I definitely, you know, can't can't take credit for just, like, you know, knowing how to do all this. I I bought some I bought a content from a physical therapist who who, you know, runs runs, a similar type clinic, and that was foundational because he just kinda had a checklist of stuff to go through. You know, I read read books like, you know, Book Yourself Solid and and other things just to kinda wrap my head around some of these ideas. But, yeah. I mean, a lot of that, you know, kind of the beginning stages even before I opened my doors was just figuring that stuff out and and, you know, working a different job and and, you know, getting all this stuff set up. That way, when I was ready to go, I was somewhat operational. Justin Shelley: Yeah. I mean, it sounds like you went into this with strategy. In contrast, and I'll use myself as the wrong example. Michael Gerber has a book called The E Myth Revisited, and he talks about the entrepreneurial seizure. And that's where somebody who has a technical skill decides I can do this better than my boss. And he goes out and he quits his job and he starts his own business. You know, that was kind of my path. I I've actually started this business twice. Once was very similar. I wanted to make more money and work less hours. I watched my boss bill me out at $85 an hour and pay me 8. And I did a little bit of simple math and just thought I could do better. There was a lot of math I didn't understand at the time, like overhead, for example, startup costs, you know, but anyway, so the entrepreneurial seizure is kind of what grabbed me and what grabs a lot of people. And my strategy was, I don't want to work for this guy anymore. I want to do it myself. So you were miles ahead just in having that strategy when you started out. Do you do you have any just general tips if if there's somebody out here there who's contemplating starting a business, you know, and I really it goes for everybody. Like I said, I've been doing it this time around for ten years. I'm still working on some of this stuff. So what are some tips that you can give people for, you know, just dialing in your your vision, your marketing, your strategy, like that? Steve White: Yeah, that's a good, good question. I'd say on a on a basic level, just stay on brand, Like, figure out, like, what it is you're gonna do and and just, like, stick there. Don't don't hop around to different things you you think you could do. Right? Like, obviously, again, I'm trained as a physical therapist. I know how to manage a lot of different conditions. You know, worked with in my other job, I worked with, you know, different athletes and runners, soccer athletes, tennis players, what whatever, you know, older folks that had knee replacements. So I had a lot of these skills, but, you know, really what it came down to is I and don't even know where I'm gonna I don't even know I don't remember where I got this from, so I'm not gonna able to do it justice. But, you know, some sort of Venn diagram type thing where, like, okay, you're taking your set of individual skills, you know, that you have. So mine was physical therapy. And then you're blending it with something that, you know, you're really passionate about. And so for me, it was running. And then I think the other one was was something that had to do with, like, well, it has to be, like, financially viable. So, you know, it can't just be underwater basket weaving or something like that. So so, yeah, on on a basic level, I just I think find find that center of the Venn diagram for you if you're looking to do something like this, and and then just, again, stay on brand. Don't get distracted by, you know, things that, you know, oh, maybe I could make more money if I say I'm gonna be see tennis players too or or whatever. But but really just stay knit. Justin Shelley: Right. Steve White: Yeah. Try to be everything to everybody. Exactly. Yeah. Justin Shelley: So that diagram you're talking about, have you read Good to Great by chance? Steve White: No I haven't. Is that in that? Justin Shelley: They talk about it in there probably under a different name and it's probably not a unique concept but it's a critical concept. Another one that you mentioned when we were prepping for this, you talked about avatars, and I think that mostly comes from Book Yourself Solid, which by the way, guys, anybody listening here, great book. If you really want to dial this stuff in that we're talking about what that talk to me a little bit about your avatars. I think you even have them named. Am I right? Yeah. Steve White: Yeah. And that so tell us Justin Shelley: what an avatar is and then describe your avatars by name and and just tell us a little bit about that. Steve White: So, you know, the avatar is is just a drill you're supposed to go through. And and, basically, it's kinda creating your your ideal customer. And, this is from that, Book Yourself Solid book. So, yeah, you're basically creating, you know, this person and you're naming them, and then and then you're you're detailing all these qualities. Like, you're getting, like, in-depth. Like, how many kids do they have? Like, you know, do they have kids? Like, all this stuff. What kind of car do they drive? Right? And so I I created some as part of that exercise. I had I had Rachel, and I had I think I had Connor. And I won't go through it all, but but Rachel basically was was a PT patient. So someone that was coming to me for an injury. And so I kinda gave her this backstory of, like, she ran, you know, competitively in college for, like, a d one school, and she was really good. Then she, you know, got into the working world, and she's a consultant. So she's she's busy. She's traveling all the time. You know, has has a couple kids. She's she's married, and and then kinda, you know, still tries to stay active, but, she starts getting pushed back from from these injuries. And and then so, you know, again, just kinda weaving this backstory of, like, why would someone come to me, and and what would be their kinda specific concerns and desires, behind them choosing me for for the services. And then, you know, on the other side of the coin of my business, I had, know, a coaching client. His name was I think I named Connor. And and he was an attorney. He he wasn't married, and didn't have any kids. But he later in life just kinda caught the running bug. I think he I put him at low forties age wise. And so he doesn't really know quite what he's doing with with running, but, he has some kind of natural talent. He's been doing it for a few years, and so he's kind of at a point where he really wants to learn more and and push the needle with with the training. So, you know, that's probably enough specifics about them. But but the whole idea is just to say, hey. Who who do I want to be working with? You know, who's gonna be life giving people for me to work with? And and, that are gonna be a good fit for that that brand or that niche. So, yeah, it's a great, great exercise for anyone, you know, trying to figure out, you know, who they who they want to work with. Because that's what it's all about. Right? Like, I'm sure in your business Right. You know, you don't you don't, you know, want to work with everyone. You you've have, you've got these Peter, maybe people do, but you know it when you're working with someone and you're like, oh, they're easy to work with. We connect with each other like that just makes a world of difference. Justin Shelley: Yeah, So for us, you know, we and I haven't done this avatar drill, which I probably need to, if I'm being honest, but we have our defined target audience, our ideal client or, you know, something like that. What we do and this is something like I mentioned before, kind of coached these IT consultants as they were coming into this marketing program. And one of the biggest hang ups that all of us seem to have coming into that program is this fear of limiting our audience and reducing opportunities for revenue. Now, so the way I would push back on that is just say, listen, what this avatar is or what this defined target audience is, this is a filter for where you're going to spend your marketing dollars. It doesn't mean that if somebody comes in who doesn't fit Rachel or Connor that you're gonna turn them away necessarily, but when you're marketing, when you're spending money on Google Ads or whatever you're doing, you're gonna zero in on the person that you really want walking through your door. Is that is that kind of what you did with these avatars? Steve White: Exactly. Yeah. Any so anything, you know, any like you said, anything you're gonna put out to, like, let's just say an Instagram post or like, you know, some sort of blog, I kinda, like, would think, like, okay. Like, if, Rachel, who's been dealing with injuries, would she, like, see this scrolling and want to read it? You know? So so I think that just gives you, like anything, like a target, to kinda orient yourself to where you're not just doing random stuff. Justin Shelley: Well, yeah. So it it gets and I'm I'm thinking this through as we're talking here. But it, when I market a lot of times, one of the problems that I have myself is that I'm marketing my ideas, I'm marketing what's important to me and what you're describing is you're truly getting inside the head of your client or your customer, your target audience, which is hard to do as any kind of a professional. We're so entrenched in our own work that it can be really tricky to get outside of that and live for or, you know, by proxy in some way, the people that we're trying to sell to. Steve White: Definitely. Yeah. I mean, yeah, you said that perfectly. I mean, I remember before I did this this drill and made these avatars, like, I was writing some blogs or content and, you know, my my wife was like, who are you writing this to? Like, it sounds like you're writing, like, a physical therapy paper or, like, you're writing to other people that know, like, as much as you do. And I was like, oh, yeah. I guess I guess you're right. Because I think we just you know, we get it we get in our fields, and we know this technical language. And, you know, I don't maybe you wanna sound smart or knowledgeable. But but, yeah, I think at the end of the day, it's like, you know, we want to tailor stuff to to who, needs our help. Yeah. Justin Shelley: Yeah. Right. Okay. So we're we're wrapping things up here. We're towards the end of the time we have available. Let me let me just say a couple things. As you know, I've talked about my own experience early in life, childhood traumas. Sorry for the therapy session today, guys. Got a little bit personal and emotional here. But as I as I get older and, you know, my runway is getting shorter and I realize that there are some things that I want to do and I want to do right, I've realized that, you know, I have to I have to believe in myself, but I also have to recognize my limitations. And so when I hired you, Steve, as a as a coach, as a physical therapist, it was because I was looking forward at a goal and I was looking for what are the things like I know that eventually I can probably figure it out, but there's always obstacles. And I wanted to know what are the things that are going to prevent me from running the Boston Marathon for qualifying for that race. And I knew that it was injury and it was an inexperience because I'm not a professional athlete. And so when I hired you, I'm looking to remove these obstacles. And so that's kind of my parting message to the audience here is, you know, we can all do more than I than I you know, maybe some people are more optimistic than me, I guess. But I feel like a lot of us live below our skill set, below our abilities, below our potential. And my advice then is to set high targets, get serious about what you want out of life, and that look at the things that are going to get in the way and go hit those things head on. So that's what I was doing when I hired you. That's what you did when you bought these books, you reached out to your that, you know, that group there, you purchased that training module that kind of taught you, you you kind of knew what could get in the way of hitting your goal. And you just, you nailed them, you hit them head on. Right? Steve White: Yeah. Yeah. And I, you know, I think on that note and kind of just on the note of like, you know, part of the theme of, you know, what we've been talking about is like, you know, okay, I kind of went in, went in on this business thing alone. Like, you know, looking back, hindsight, like, sure. Did a lot of things right, but, like, you know, I I think just having, you know, a coach and whether that's a business coach or running coach or, you know, whatever it is, like, it's just so invaluable because because they're people that that know where you wanna go and and they've got, you know, experience and and the wherewithal. So, yeah, I I just think, yeah, I think you're spot on with with that. And and, yeah, if you if you want something, go go for it. Go make it happen Cause there's no time like the present. Justin Shelley: Right. Yeah. I mean, we're seeing it right. I keep saying that the world's literally burning down around us as we record this. So we don't know. We just don't know what future holds. We don't know if we're going to be here tomorrow. So don't hold back, get stuff done. Hire a coach if you need a coach, hire a physical therapist. If you need one of those, by the way, go to dallasrunclinic.com for that. Highly recommend it. Go to their contact page and there's every way possible to get ahold of Steve, go to his YouTube page, steal some of that free content. That's all good stuff. I use it almost every single day. Steve, any final words? Steve White: Oh, man. No, I don't I don't think so. I mean, you know, again, I think I'm Justin Shelley: wrapped up. Steve White: Yeah. I I think I think, you know, if if we're talking to any runners out there, I think, the story you shared would be so many people's stories. And so I just think don't be afraid to try something that you think you might fail at because that's Okay. Because maybe you will. Right. But you know, you might also learn something about yourself and you might also succeed. So yeah. Justin Shelley: All right. Well guys, last thing I'm gonna say here as we like I said, this is only episode two. If you're listening to this and you have a story you wanna share, get ahold of me. I'd love to have you on the show. I'm looking for more people to talk about the challenges they've faced in life, in business in particular, how you've overcome them. We've talked today about coaching. Steve's had groups that he's worked with. I have groups I work with. I just think we need a community. We've got to pull together. We've got to work together and we can be better for Steve White: it. Definitely. Justin Shelley: So all right. Steve, thank you so much for being here today. We will definitely be in touch and, we'll go ahead and wrap up. We'll see you guys later.