0. Why Your Sales Team's Conversations Are Killing Your Pipeline - with Frank Gustafson | DFW Rockstars Ep. 8

Justin Shelley (00:00) Welcome everybody to episode eight of DFW Rockstars. I am here with a I don't know, a long time old-time contact slash friend, slash business acquaintance. I don't know, Frank. We got together when in the in some dark times, honestly, during COVID, right? So Frank Gustafson (00:17) Yeah, man. Yes. Justin Shelley (00:20) I appreciate you jumping back on here as we you know, DFW Rockstars kind of went to bed for a few years and we're we're waking her up, bringing it back out, and I thought, you know, let's Wait, did we do a rock stars or we did a webinar? I I might be confusing that. I think you and I did a webinar, right? Yeah, same. Either way, we'll do better. Yeah. It was brilliant before, but it's gonna even be better this Frank Gustafson (00:36) I we you know what? I've slept since then, brother. It's been a while. Whatever it was, we're gonna do well we'll d this one'll be better. Whatever that was. Yeah. Justin Shelley (00:48) time. So anyways, thanks for thanks for joining me. I really do appreciate it. sales is something that I love and hate with a passion on both ends of that scale. so hopefully you can. Ease my hatred, increase my knowledge, and help all of us make a little bit more money. How's that sound? Frank Gustafson (01:06) I feel I feel your pain, brother. Forty years ago I got tricked into it. I wanted nothing to do with it. Justin Shelley (01:12) Sounds like my store of technology. Anyways, so Frank, tell me a little bit about what you do, who you do it for. you know, I I just pulled some information off your website. You've got a target audience listed of two twenty to five hundred employees, three to fifty person sales team. Does that sound about right? Or or what are you up to these days? Frank Gustafson (01:30) Yeah, man, I've so I've dabbled in all of the above. I I've had I've had, you know, s clients as just a a solopreneur and I've had and I I I trained a a fifty billion dollar company, so and kinda run the gamut in between. I I I really like entrepreneurial companies. Whether it's whether it's B to B or or B to C, I really like entrepreneurial companies that you know, might have a a a little smaller team and and there's a good chance that the the founder of the company is still leading sales and and they're you know there's they're struggling. Justin Shelley (02:07) I mean, hey, you just described me. Great. So let's let's roll with that. Entrepreneurial, I that's my passion. Sales, not so much, but it it still is firmly on my plate, right? That's as a business owner, that's what I have to do. and I wanna see without giving away my problems, if you were to just walk the audience through the typical scenario of what you find. in in this company, this this arrangement you just mentioned, what do you find? What do you do to fix it? And what what could they expect as an outcome? Frank Gustafson (02:41) So, you know, that's a that's a a bit of a loaded question. I I I think that typically i i it all starts with the premise that I believe about sales, and that is that sales is a conversation between adults to uncover the truth. And I think that the but but the problem doesn't th I mean that's that's an underlying problem. The problem is we're not getting in front of enough good solid quality prospects. When we get in front of them, we're not saying the right things. our sales cycles are too long. Our our you know our our our folks are having trouble closing business without discounting. there's so many different issues in sales and and almost all of it tracks back to having better conversations. So I am just a huge Justin Shelley (03:33) Okay. Frank Gustafson (03:34) fan of coming in, diagnosing what's going on. And then working to help people have better conversations. I I'm I'm working with a company right now. They're ever they they get a lot of inbound leads. It's a B to B c B to C company. It's it's a little lower tech. they get a ton of inbound leads. Their speed to lead was an hour and twenty seven minutes a month ago. I joined them the last day of June. We've we took the speed to lead down to about thirty two minutes, down to twenty four minutes, we're down to sixteen minutes. Now we've we've we've solved for the behavioral piece. Now we just need Justin Shelley (04:07) Okay. Frank Gustafson (04:08) to ha now we just need to walk into having better conversations. We can have better conversations. Our close rates go up, our sales cycles come down, and everybody's happy. Is and the and the customers are happy. Justin Shelley (04:21) Right. Well it's okay. I was gonna I was gonna touch on that because you s you' you say speed delete and I assume you mean the lead comes in, it sits, goes unanswered, nobody follows up on it for a period of time. Is that what you're talking about? Frank Gustafson (04:33) Yeah, yeah. Justin Shelley (04:35) Okay. I I know in my world, in the IT world, we have minutes, we don't have hours. If if a lead comes in, it's because they have a problem, they have a crisis, and they aren't gonna sit around and wait for you to call back. You don't have an hour and whatever minutes you just said. we really have to answer live, and if we don't do something within probably five minutes, that leads gone. so super important, super important concept. Frank Gustafson (04:57) Yeah. Well and and I think that the the kind of the chasm there is between the inbound stuff and then the you know the outbound. The outbound has gotten so much harder after COVID. you know, everybody's got everybody's got a s a call screener on their cell phone, nobody has d desk phones anymore, spam has has become just an unreal problem. text is a problem, all of that stuff is a problem. So really it is about when you i it's about when you have an opportunity, when you when you when your prospecting intersects a need with a with a prospect, you better be having good conversations or you're done. That's on the B2B side. On the B to on the B2C sty side, it's the leads are coming in and when a lead comes in, they're not just checking your website, they're checking your competitors' websites. And the the you know, I Jeffrey Gittimer many years ago said The either the first one in or the last one in is gonna win the deal. And I'm a firm believer in the fact that you cannot let a an inbound lead get cold. You've got to get on it. And if you can catch while they're Justin Shelley (06:05) Yeah. Frank Gustafson (06:05) still on the website, even better. Justin Shelley (06:08) Yeah, yeah. And I mean we've got better tools now so we can do some of that. But you're absolutely right about Frank Gustafson (06:12) Yeah. Justin Shelley (06:13) you know, you talk about what's the problem. God, outreach is is tough because we used to be able to call people in their office. Well, what is an office anymore? You know, like I'm I'm sitting here recording this. I was telling you before, I'm not in my normal studio. I do have kind of a an office slash studio. But I'm out on a, you know, working a a big job this week. And so I'm I'm sitting here recording from an Airbnb, honestly. And I'm I've got my business phone sitting beside me because it's an app on my smartphone. and and I don't know, I don't use the phone much at all anymore. So it like this has changed a lot. It's a very different world that we're living in. what what do you do as as far as coaching outreach? What what do you have people do? What advice do you give Frank Gustafson (07:02) You know, I I th I think that y you could talk to ten different people about about outbound and you get ten different answers. I think you I think you've got to be omnipresent. I think you've got to have a omni you know a multi pronged approach. You've got to you I I I I put out a a newsletter every week and and I watch those stats, man. I watch you know, how many people commented on the post and am and and am I commenting back? Am I you know, engaging, how many people saw the post, that kind of thing. So I think that you've got to be you've got to set yourself up as as somebody who knows what they're talking about. and I and and I think that there is a time and a place for email. I I I don't believe in spam. And I think that you know, personalized outreach via email does still work. It's not the greatest thing in the world. Some text, not a lot of text. I get a lot of spam text. And I think that probably the you know the The the big one is the telephone. Picking up the phone and and dialing the numbers. Yeah. Justin Shelley (08:07) Still call. Okay. Frank Gustafson (08:09) Yeah. Justin Shelley (08:11) I hate to hear that because that's that's nothing Frank Gustafson (08:13) I I know. Justin Shelley (08:13) I like to do and honestly nothing that I will do. if if outbound phone calls happen, it's because I hired somebody to do it. w tell me about that. Is that is that a good approach? Frank Gustafson (08:20) Well, you know, I I I well the the so the other side of it is the other side of it is is you know, if you wanna be known you gotta be someone who's worth knowing and and you've got to be interested before you can be interesting and some of these are cliche, I know, but you know, i if if if you and I meet at a at a networking meeting or if if somebody refers us That conversation has got to be a quality conversation. It can't be a sales pitch. It can't be a spiel. it's gotta be I I I believe that those those those conversations between adults to uncover the truth have got to be customer focused, they've got to be prospect focused, they've got to they've got to be servant oriented. Can do you have a need? Can I is there any way that I could serve you? And if I can't, maybe I know somebody who can. And it's and if that's the case it's incumbent on me to make an introduction. You know, w whatever the case may be, I think it's super important. Justin, it's not you know i it's yeah. Justin Shelley (09:26) Well and that may that may be enough right there, 'cause I was gonna ask you, you've you've mentioned the quality conversation several times. And I thought maybe, you know, like let's let's dig into that, let's talk about that, maybe let's even role play that. But you know, in in the technology world, the last thing that a business owner wants to hear is, you know, tell me about your technology. Like they don't care. Well, let me tell you what we do. We do this, we install that, we set up this, we monitor They don't care. You know, so I talk me through it, Frank. You're coaching me as far as having a a meaningful conversation with a prospective client. What does it look like? What are the key points there? Frank Gustafson (10:05) Well they care the p people care about their problems, about their stuff, about their things. And if you can't in if you can't engage in a conversation that where you can draw from them what the the key things are that they're dealing with. You know, hey, so so we you and I meet at a coffee shop, you and I meet at a networking meeting, I pick up the phone and call you, Hey Justin, Frank over at Sam or hey I I don't know if it makes sense for us to even have a conversation today or not. c can I tell you s you know specifically why I'm calling and then you can make the decision as to whether or not we continue or not. Is that fair? I mean, usually usually Justin Shelley (10:45) I love that. So you're taking their guard down right away. Frank Gustafson (10:48) the answer to that is yeah, that's fair. What do you got? Hey, I got a minute, what do you got? And Justin Shelley (10:51) Right. Frank Gustafson (10:52) and I say I say, Justin, I you know, we work with we work in the IT space, a lot of different companies, they come to us and they say things like, Hey, You know what, we've g we've got a great sales team. They're good people, but they're not get they're not out prospecting enough. They're not bringing in enough new opportunity. or they say, Hey, you know what? We bring we get a lot of inbound leads. We do a a really good job at our SEO and our AEO and our GEO and every other EO that's out there these days. Justin Shelley (11:19) Right. Frank Gustafson (11:22) And we get these leads coming in and I listen to these calls that my my guys and they're just all they're doing is pitching our stuff. They're not the the they're not having the they're not having good quality conversations. And at the end of the day, my biggest concern is that we've got all this opportunity that's in the pipeline and most of it is just fluff. It's not real. It's not qualified. And not enough of that turns into revenue. And you know, I I just I have no idea if you're struggling with any of that stuff or not. Anything I said that might be worth a deeper conversation or no. And you go, yeah. And Justin Shelley (11:53) Yeah. Frank Gustafson (11:54) I go, like what? What's going on? And then you tell me a couple of things and and I say, you know Tell me more, how long has that been going on? I mean, what have you tried? And and hey look, we're not gonna solve world hunger here on this call. Maybe it makes sense for you and I to grab a cup of coffee for us to meet at your office, invite me over, for us to have another Zoom call you know, this week and and dig into it. I don't know if we're a fit for you or not, but if we can help you out I'd love to. Love to to certainly try. And if I and if it's not me, maybe it's somebody else that I know that can help you. Is that s is that reasonable? Justin Shelley (12:29) I mean, yeah. And and Frank, I know we're kinda role playing here, but it's like you've you're doing that so well that you've got me in and out of wait, are we we is this roleplay or is Frank like actually asking me and my guards down so low, Frank Gustafson (12:42) Yeah. Justin Shelley (12:43) like I'll I'm ready to jump into it. Like let's let's talk business. I mean that's that's good stuff. yeah. Frank Gustafson (12:49) It's gotta be it's gotta be a conversation. It's gotta be like you're sitting across the the table from your grandmother. You know? Justin Shelley (12:56) Yeah. And I'm gonna throw I'm gonna I'm gonna pitch some of your stuff. free stuff by the way, because before we got on this recording, yeah, we've met, it's been years. and so yeah, I stalked you a little bit. I got on LinkedIn, I got on your your website, frankgustifson.com. and you've got a a section right in the main navigation for I think it's called tools. I don't know. I would I would add the word free because there's no cost associated to any of this. And the very first one is better booth conversations cheat sheet. And I know this is for trade shows, but Frank Gustafson (13:26) Yeah. Justin Shelley (13:27) as I kind of went through that, it's basically what you're saying here. No, no shocker. but but there's good stuff in that. So, you know, audience, go to Frank's website, Frank Gustafson.com and check out these tools Frank Gustafson (13:39) Yeah. Justin Shelley (13:40) because there's good stuff there. Frank Gustafson (13:41) You know, when I when I when I have an idea for a for a post and I put a post out there, I try to give some value there as well. Like, hey, here's a tool that'll help you with this. I've got I was working with a two billion dollar company that was really struggling. They did a lot of trade shows, and they were really struggling with being like everyone else. And all of that, you know, that better booth conversations came out of out of that work that I did with that client. And and it's stuff that works and they swear by it. And you know, I it's just out there for free. Don't you you don't even have to put your email address in, just click on the link and it's yours. Justin Shelley (14:16) Yeah, I noticed that. I I did. I kept waiting for the email for the and I was gonna give it you already got it. So it doesn't matter, you know, like I'll give you my contact information. but yeah it's not gated at all, it's just there and and really is genuinely good content. So I have I have no problem pushing that. I love it. question though, as as far as trade shows, I'm going back, I'm digging into some of my past training on trade shows. and some of it was kind of gimmicky, but one of the things that somebody was doing is they had these little branded footballs, and as somebody would walk by, they would get eye contact with them and kind of fake throw it, and as and if they engage, then they'd they'd chuck them the football. what are your thoughts on stuff like that as far as just getting people's attention? Frank Gustafson (15:00) Man, t so twenty years ago we did trade shows and and I I I we had a VP that would put a hundred dollar bill on the floor and stand on the corner of it. I mean, just crazy stuff, right? Or you would put it on fishing line and pull it across. There's just all kinds of crazy ways to engage Justin Shelley (15:11) Interesting. Okay. Frank Gustafson (15:16) people in trade shows. One of the things that I've noticed, I was do I went to a trade show three years in a row, probably five thousand people in the trade show, probably four, five hundred, maybe six hundred exhibitors, huge in Kansas City at the big Kansas City center there right in the in the middle of town. And I could walk around that trade show booth and almost every booth had somebody that was just sitting there leaning against their Justin Shelley (15:44) cool. yeah. Frank Gustafson (15:45) their table, staring into their phone. They weren't making eye contact with me. There was no engagement. And I think that that's one of the keys in in in a trade show is man, Be engaging with people. Look, make eye Justin Shelley (15:57) Yeah. Frank Gustafson (15:58) contact. Hey, how you doing? You know, and don't don't Justin Shelley (16:01) Yeah. Frank Gustafson (16:01) get don't try to pitch in a trade show. It hey, Justin Shelley (16:05) And Frank Gustafson (16:06) ask what's going on, say, hey, maybe it makes sense. Let's pull out the phones, let's put a conversation for next Monday or you know, afternoon and and let's talk about this. Justin Shelley (16:16) pitch. Yeah, and I I remember seeing that on your site and that's a good point too. you've got to get you've got to get their attention somehow. You've got to have good conversations and then really you're you're selling the next step, not the product, right? Frank Gustafson (16:28) Well, the bar's low. In trade shows the bar's low because everybody's got their phone in their face and they're sitting there talking Justin Shelley (16:31) God, yeah. Yeah. Frank Gustafson (16:34) to each other if they're talking at all and nobody's engaged on the crowd. They're just there they're checked out. They get, you know, four or five days out of the office, they're gonna go sit in a trade show and and do whatever they do on their phones. Justin Shelley (16:46) Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I've I've got lots to say about that that I'm gonna w what I what I will Frank Gustafson (16:52) Ha ha ha Justin Shelley (16:54) say out loud is I am thrilled to death that this is even an option because like I mentioned in the beginning, you and I first got together during COVID when all this stuff was shut down. I'm I'm glad to be back to the world where we can actually engage face to face with people. So tell me a little bit about what you think is different in the marketplace, in the sales world from that conversation we had during COVID to, you know, now we are five, six years outside of it. What's the world look like today? Good and bad, by the way. And then I've got my take on it too, but what do think? Frank Gustafson (17:30) So so my thoughts around around pre and post COVID, I think there's some really good things that happened. There's some really horrible things that have happened. I and I think that companies either th thrived in COVID or they were like, you know, way on the other end of the spectrum. There wasn't a lot of middle ground. I know during COVID, I mean it's like it's like, you know, one day I've got people in my classroom in Fort Worth. the next week I've got people in Canada, in Kansas, in Louisiana, in you know, Michigan all on a Zoom call in w with nobody it was just me on the Zoom call with nobody else around. So my business took off. it it knocked down some of the borders in my business in COVID. So so COVID was pretty good for us. I I think one of the th some of the stuff that kinda went on was people got real gun shy on on emails and and and phone calls and text messages because it was just harder to get a hold of people and people tended to kind of recruise recluse a little bit. So I think it I think there's some residual effects from that that have that have lingered and that is that people are just, you know, h harder to get a hold of, harder to reach, harder to connect with. So as as sellers, I think it makes our job a l a lot more difficult around that those aspects of, you know, prospecting conversations with with prospective clients, etcetera. Justin Shelley (19:12) I think, and tell me what you think about this. I I would frame it just in customer service in general, but we can apply it here. customer service just dropped off. There was there was nothing. People almost became hostile towards each other during COVID. And I don't know like we're not there now, but I don't know that we've got back to the level of interpersonal communication and relationships that we had pre-COVID. And so to me it seem like I hate that by the way. But it seems like there may be an opportunity especially in sales where we can actually be human and and connect. You know, you're talking about conversations, good conversations. I think humanity's kind of starved for that. What are your thoughts? Frank Gustafson (19:57) I agree. and I think that you know, I I don't so so yeah, I agree that humanity is star for that. I think that you know, I'm gun shy a little bit because there's so much vitriol. there's Justin Shelley (20:16) Yeah. Frank Gustafson (20:16) so many keyboard warriors out there. It's it is you know it's a it's a difficult it's a it's a difficult row to hoe. with interpersonal communications because th people are angry. There's a l there's a lot of Justin Shelley (20:32) Yeah. Frank Gustafson (20:32) people out that are angry, which I think ultimately, if you're if you're someone who truly cares about serving your marketplace, if you're somebody who truly cares about the human being on the other side of the Zoom call or the other side of the handshake or the other side of w however you connect with people, then I think that that ultimately comes out. And and I think what it is it's a lesson in civility for us. I just I'm not sure that they're teaching it anymore. I'm not sure that it's it is highly respected in in in the world anymore. I mean with with all the quiet quitting and all the, you know, just you're just all of a sudden you don't show up for work anymore and you're done and you're off doing something else. That's a civility issue. so you know, ultimately I think that again the the bar has been lowered for us who truly do care and truly do value good conversations and good interactions and and not just for the purpose of getting a buck but for the purpose of serving someone. I believe, you know, I believe what Zig Ziglar talked about and and I've got it on a cup sitting right here. It says, you can have anything in life that you want if you help another enough other people get what they want. And where has where has that gone? Where has that gone? Where is helping other people get what they want? Yeah, away. Yeah. Justin Shelley (22:04) You beat me. I was g I was gonna I yeah, I love that quote. The away. Yeah. Frank Gustafson (22:14) So so in the grand scheme of things, the bar is lower, and and th there are people out there who still get that. There's a lot of people that don't. And I think that unfortunately. What happened to this to our world i during COVID has exacerbated that situation. But man, it's about serving other people. It's about truly caring ultimately. Justin Shelley (22:36) I I a hundred percent agree with you, and and again, I think it opens up an opportunity for us. Because it's so easy, differentiation is the hardest thing in sales, right? And really, what we can do is just be human and we're gonna differentiate from the way the world has gone or seems to have gone post-COVID. And that brings me to the next point. Let's talk about AI, because AI has done a lot of things for us. I have a whole other podcast where we just really dug into AI. But in the world of sales specifically and marketing, to an extent, I believe it's dehumanizing us. And here again, maybe an opportunity to differentiate and to maintain or or really elevate that human nature, that human reality. You know, what what are your thoughts on AI and the worlds of sales and marketing? Frank Gustafson (23:28) So so I'm a huge fan of AI. I mean I'm sixty two years old, but I I love AI and and the potential that it has for us. But I do agree that it does it can it can ease very easily dehumanize us. You could tell. I mean when you get when you get an email, when you get an outreach, when you get, you know, s something that's readable, you could tell. It's just there's no nobody Justin Shelley (23:51) Yeah. Frank Gustafson (23:52) really cared about this. It's just they call it AI slop and I think they call it that Justin Shelley (23:56) Mm-hmm. Frank Gustafson (23:57) for a reason. I I don't I don't you know when I'm looking for something, if I really need something, I'm okay with a little bit of AI slop as long as I'm learning something. So I'm okay with receiving it. I'm okay, I'm okay on that end of it. But I think that I think that there's so much opportunity when when you and I have a conversation and AI is recording it, is transcribing it, is collecting all the data, and I can and I can go in on the back and and I could take that recording and I could say I could say, Claude, go grab that call. log and I want you to to add Justin to my HubSpot and and and add the transcript in there. And by the way, i you know, the deal that we talked about, the opportunity that we talked about, go ahead and log that opportunity, put it into this particular phase in the sales process, give it this dollar amount. Anything else that I missed, and and Colonel come back and say, hey, yeah, but you talked about this, this, and this. I think that there's some really cool stuff that it can do to help us be more efficient, more effective, but it can't take away it can't take away the human interaction, the human person to person interaction conversation. I don't think it ever will. I you know do I tried something you know, during over the last couple of years, I tried employing an AI agent for outbound calling. The biggest failure I've ever seen. I have never seen so many people get so mad at an A at Justin Shelley (25:31) wow. Frank Gustafson (25:31) a computerized AI agent. And I felt bad for mer Justin Shelley (25:33) Yeah. Frank Gustafson (25:34) for her, man. I really I take it kind of personally when people would cuss out my gal, Justin Shelley (25:37) Ha ha ha. Frank Gustafson (25:38) you know? And my wife was like, Why are you getting so mad? That's just a it's an AI. I'm and I'm like, I know, but she works for me and I care. You know? So yeah, yeah, computers have feelings too. Justin Shelley (25:47) And they have feelings too. Or or or we can't prove it doesn't, anyways. it it is Frank Gustafson (25:53) But I think there's so much good, you know, i anything can be used for gooding i or for evil, and I think Justin Shelley (25:57) Yeah. Frank Gustafson (25:58) there's so much good that we can do. but we have to be we have to be cognizant and and conscious of the one to one the or the one to several interactions with human beings, and that's always, always, always gonna be our differentiator. Justin Shelley (26:19) Yeah, I think AI can be used as as leverage. We can do so much more than we could before. but and I'm I'm gonna answer the question before I even ask it, but then you can check my math. one of the the the next question I had for you is what are the timeless principles that independent of AI, independent of COVID, and and I think you said it in the very beginning, which is the quality conversations. And that's, you know, check my math on that. But that is we we can use these tools. We can do so much more, but it is always going to come down to that. What are your thoughts? Frank Gustafson (26:53) So so right now I've got I'm I'm working a fractional gig for a company and one of the so I'm I'm leading their their their sales team of six f from a fractional perspective. And one of the th one of the elements that I that I use as a lever is I is I is I pull down and I score their outbound calls every single day. And it gives me the ability to coach one on one about specific issues and specific things that are going on. So So I think that, you know, AI can certainly help me help me with that. But kind of the intangibles are are are you willing to? C can you and are you willing to sit down and have a conversation with somebody, to get on the phone and have a conversation with somebody, to get on a Zoom call or a or a Teams call or or what have you and just have a conversation and be interested in what it is that they've got going on. Not interested from a from a selfish perspective because you may not be able to help them. But you don't know that until you ask them the questions. And and I think that that is that's an art that that adds the art to the science that the AI adds, and that is your ability to literally care and seek to understand what's what's Justin dealing with today? Is it something that I can help with? Is it not something I can help with? Or, you know ultimately if if you don't have a need, I I'm I'm not gonna you're not gonna give me any money. Justin Shelley (28:20) Yeah. Frank Gustafson (28:20) You know, a need that I can solve. Well they're not gonna give me any money. And Justin Shelley (28:24) Yeah. Frank Gustafson (28:24) and we can be friends, but you're not gonna be a client, and that's okay. Justin Shelley (28:29) It is okay, yeah. And and you know, I think you mentioned it earlier, but if if you can't help them directly, then i in all cases, you know, we can contact or or put people in contact, kind of be a a connector of sorts and and still provide value in those relationships or those communications. So listen, Frank, I I think we've kind of nailed all the points I had. Do you have any any final thoughts or anything that we missed you want to talk about? Frank Gustafson (28:53) Ben, it was great to reconnect with you. I pr Justin Shelley (28:55) Same, yeah. Frank Gustafson (28:56) I appreciate you reaching out. This has been great. And I I look for to I look forward to talking to you again. Justin Shelley (29:00) And we need we need to stay in in I was gonna say we need to stay in better contact. Guys go to Frank Gustafson dot com for some of those free tools. and then we've got I don't think I've talked about it yet, DFW rockstars.com. we'll have all Frank, all of your contact information will be there. we've got some free tools on there as well. You know, when you click on this episode, you've got the audio and video player links to the you know Spotify or whatever else. And then one of my favorite things, and I use AI for this, but it'll go through the transcript and it'll pull out what it considers to be the key points. Here's my problem when I listen to a podcast. I'm working out, I'm in the garden, whatever, and I'm thinking that's a great idea. I want to do that someday, and then I completely forget. So go to DFWrockstars.com, pull this episode up, look at the key takeaways. Yeah, maybe it's maybe yours isn't in there, but AI will generate them. And then you just click one button that says add to my roadmap. And and that just kind of locks it in. And so you can come back a a day, a week, a year later and see what it was you wanted to implement. Go back and listen again to the podcast if you need to. but take action on this stuff, don't just listen to it. So That's all I've got. Frank, again, thank you so much for being here. I've been watching the clock. You said you like your podcast to be 29 minutes and 59 seconds or less. We we didn't hit that. We're over. so I'm gonna shut up and we're gonna wrap this thing up. Well Frank Gustafson (30:17) A I could AI could fix that. A I could take out some of the uh's and ums. Justin Shelley (30:20) we'll go shorten it down a little bit to hit your mark. anyways, guys, thank you for joining us, Frank. Thanks for being here as always, and we'll see you guys next time. Take care. Frank Gustafson (30:29) Thanks, brother.